Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #11  
Old June 27th, 2007, 03:05 AM
T Ham T Ham is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Canada
Posts: 414
T Ham
Thanks for posting this Carter! It is reassuring to know that I'm buying from at least a decent company.

Also, I saw you linked to a thread where you estimated the percentages of protein types in Low-Carb Metabolic Drive. However, I remember over at T-Nation, they have said that Low-Carb Metabolic Drive is very close to 50% micellar casein.
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old June 27th, 2007, 09:24 AM
Luke Nielsen Luke Nielsen is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Ontario, Canada
Posts: 1,004
Luke Nielsen Luke Nielsen Luke Nielsen Luke Nielsen Luke Nielsen Luke Nielsen Luke Nielsen
Quote:
Originally Posted by T Ham View Post

Also, I saw you linked to a thread where you estimated the percentages of protein types in Low-Carb Metabolic Drive. However, I remember over at T-Nation, they have said that Low-Carb Metabolic Drive is very close to 50% micellar casein.
It may very well be.
__________________
Luke Nielsen
Exercise Advantage, Fully-Supported Coaching & Program Design
www.exerciseadvantage.ca
Moderator, Precision Nutrition
About Me

Last edited by Luke Nielsen; June 27th, 2007 at 09:29 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old June 27th, 2007, 11:34 AM
Carter Schoffer Carter Schoffer is offline
Precision Nutrition Team
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Ontario
Posts: 3,865
Carter Schoffer Carter Schoffer Carter Schoffer Carter Schoffer Carter Schoffer Carter Schoffer Carter Schoffer Carter Schoffer Carter Schoffer Carter Schoffer Carter Schoffer
Let's not get my post twisted...

A key sentence to said post is - "Now because it's a proprietary blend, only Biotest knows the actual %s of each." In other words, my post wasn't to serve as an estimate but rather an explanation of how to get an idea of ingredient loads.

Now that being said, we know that the ingredient that is called micellar casein can't be 50% of the protein make-up because there are 3 types of proteins included in the formula. And we know that that there's more whey isolate ingredient in it than micellar casein ingredient; not to forget some level of milk protein concentrate, although less than the other two aforementioned proteins.

Moreover, one could take a leap and assume that if they're going to include the milk-protein concentrate, they're going to do so with some level of significance. Put another way, there's no real point in including it if it's only going to make up a fraction of a percent or for that matter, in my mind at least, anything less than 5%. And even then, at 5% that would mean that it would make up ~1g of the 20g protein load. That just doesn't seem worthwhile to me (although they may have their more informed reasons).

So let's get crazy and assume milk-protein concentrate makes up at least 10% of the formula for a whopping ~2g protein contribution per serving. That leaves us with ~90% (the fillers, fibres and flavouring are going to take part of this but let's keep it simple).

If we're working with 90% and we know that whey isolate, as a respective ingredient, is greater than the respective ingredient that is micellar casein (which we do b/c of the ingredient label) then, going by the assumptions presented above, at most micellar casein will make up 44% of the formula, leaving 46% to the whey isolate.

Now herein lies the rub...

The protein in Milk protein concentrate (MPC), after the highest level of filtration, is ~85%. Of said fraction, MPC is purported to be ~80% micellar casein. So what does this mean?

Well if 100g of MPC were consumed, you'd get ~85g of protein. Of that 85g, you'd be left with ~68g of micellar casein and 12g of whey.

So if we're using the numbers I guessed at above -

46% whey isolate
44% micellar casein
10% MPC (of which 80% is micellar casein)

Then in real numbers - let's use 100g - we're looking at

46g (from whey isolate) + 2g (from MPC) = 48g of whey
44g (micellar casein) + 8g (from MPC) = 52g of micellar casein

So in a roundabout way, there you have how Metabolic Drive may very well be ~50% micellar casein while still abiding by their stated ingredient list. Does this change my referenced post? It does not. Reason for that being that I was speaking about listed ingredients and not what they break down into. Had I done that, I think a few heads would've spun - as I'm sure is the case with this post.

And for reference, let's say we use the protein % I suggested in the referenced thread for a custom blend.

100g of custom blend would then have

40g (from whey iso) + 6g (from MPI) = 46g of whey
30g (from micellar cas) + 24g (from MPI) = 54g of casein (micellar and otherwise)

(Keep in mind that the numbers above aren't perfect because none of the the above are refined to 100% protein. As outlined, MPC is, at most, 85% protein and the other two range from about that percentage point up to the high 90s. But let's keep this simple shall we )

Quote:
Originally Posted by T Ham View Post
Also, I saw you linked to a thread where you estimated the percentages of protein types in Low-Carb Metabolic Drive. However, I remember over at T-Nation, they have said that Low-Carb Metabolic Drive is very close to 50% micellar casein.
__________________
Carter Schoffer
Senior Advisor, Precision Nutrition

Chief Body Transformation Architect,
Body Transformation Inc.
www.bodytransformation.com
www.facebook.com/Eat.Train.Transform
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old June 27th, 2007, 10:49 PM
Carter Schoffer Carter Schoffer is offline
Precision Nutrition Team
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Ontario
Posts: 3,865
Carter Schoffer Carter Schoffer Carter Schoffer Carter Schoffer Carter Schoffer Carter Schoffer Carter Schoffer Carter Schoffer Carter Schoffer Carter Schoffer Carter Schoffer
Sneaking questions in on me, I see. No need to conserve space here, the server is plenty big to hold another post.

The blend of the 3 is what I'd recommend and order again as a staple milk protein blend. The other doesn't need to be shared as it was a product of a, shall we say, drive to ignore the laws of parsimony.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jaybonn1 View Post

Oh yeah, I forgot to ask...you said you made 2 milk protein blends, was the link you provided (with the blend of 3) your preferred of the two? What did the breakdown of the "fancier" one look like and how did it come out?
__________________
Carter Schoffer
Senior Advisor, Precision Nutrition

Chief Body Transformation Architect,
Body Transformation Inc.
www.bodytransformation.com
www.facebook.com/Eat.Train.Transform
Reply With Quote
  #16  
Old July 2nd, 2007, 03:14 PM
GBell GBell is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 46
GBell
I'm not sure if it saves money or not, but I tend to get the free flavors from True Protein, and then add my own flavoring in with sugar-free Jello pudding mix. That way, if I want a more richly flavored shake or pudding or whatever, I can just add a few shakes of the mix. It does add a handful of carbs, but I don't think it's too significant.
Reply With Quote
  #17  
Old July 4th, 2007, 03:07 AM
T Ham T Ham is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Canada
Posts: 414
T Ham
Quote:
Originally Posted by Carter Schoffer View Post
Had I done that, I think a few heads would've spun - as I'm sure is the case with this post.
:P

Thanks Carter! That makes more sense now.
Reply With Quote
  #18  
Old August 16th, 2007, 12:44 AM
SM-19 SM-19 is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 149
SM-19
I just ordered protein off true protein.com and I have read that they recommend only using a 25% blend of hydrolyzed Whey in a custom mix....it seems as though they were talking about how it tastes so bad but other than taste being a factor are there reasons I should only use 25 % hydrolzyed whey in my shake. My mix is 100% Hydrolzyed Whey....and surge is too? Any thoughts?
Reply With Quote
  #19  
Old August 16th, 2007, 12:47 AM
T Ham T Ham is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Canada
Posts: 414
T Ham
Surge is 33% hydrolyzed I believe, but they also have sweetener and flavoring that covers up the exact bad taste that hydrolyzed gives you.
You might have a tough time drinking 100% hydrolyzed unless you mix it down with sugar or other protein or something. The bad taste goes beyond what you might normally consider to be bad.
Reply With Quote
  #20  
Old August 17th, 2007, 05:06 PM
hockechamp14 hockechamp14 is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Connecticut
Posts: 559
hockechamp14 hockechamp14
you might want to hook yourself up with some dextrose from bulknutrition if you want to use your hydrolsate for post workout.
__________________
So he started rockin
Aint never gonna stop
Gotta keep on rockin
Someday hes gonna make it to the top
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off