[Ryan D Andrews]

Dieting - What Have You Done For Me Lately?

This is an excellent post on the ugly cycle of dieting.

Wow. Good stuff.

See here:
What's Keeping You In The Diet Cycle?

Excerpt:

If you have reached your goal weight in the past (or are there now) have you been able to transition from your diet to a place of moderation and comfort? Or have you been consumed by cravings and hunger? Do you ever feel like you just want to keep eating and never stop? Cravings and bingeing follow dieting in the same way that night follows day.

If your thoughts weren’t consumed by calories and carbs, what would you think about? Are you holding on to this way of life because without the constant distraction you might have to examine other areas in your life? How is your relationship, your job, your health, your happiness? Are you investing all your energy into achieving a perfect body because it means you don’t notice the unhappiness in other areas in your life? What would fill the dieting void?

[mc-]

Ryan, i'm sorry - what are you seeing in particular in this post?

it's a great question in the title, but the council is rather facile, no? And i'm not sure it's got its comparison right, either. Here's its advice about dieting:

Stop. Stop right now. Give up dieting in the same way you would give up smoking or drinking. If you are terrified that everything you know and love/hate will disappear and you won’t know how to live in this strange new world, then just do it for today.
You might binge, and you might get fatter, but hasn’t that happened in the past anyway? Instead of going around the cycle once again, simply stop and get off. It takes courage but I know you can do it.

WHat the heck is that supposed to mean? after you dieted last time you got fat again - that might happen again so since it does just go with it and accept it? You're kidding, right?

That post offers no understanding of what's going on in dieting or why actually most folks fail when they come off the diet (try not planning for change or success or understanding how the body/mind reacts to change - you know, habits?). It's not the same as being alcoholic. It takes tremendous discipline to go into long cycles of restriction - that's not the case for smoking or drinking.

So yes the post shows the cycle but to say "just stop" and offer no alternatives seems ya hollow, you know? don't know how that's supposed to help?

mc

[lys]

Originally Posted by mc-

Ryan, i'm sorry - what are you seeing in particular in this post?

it's a great question in the title, but the council is rather facile, no? And i'm not sure it's got its comparison right, either. Here's its advice about dieting:

WHat the heck is that supposed to mean? after you dieted last time you got fat again - that might happen again so since it does just go with it and accept it? You're kidding, right?

That post offers no understanding of what's going on in dieting or why actually most folks fail when they come off the diet (try not planning for change or success or understanding how the body/mind reacts to change - you know, habits?). It's not the same as being alcoholic. It takes tremendous discipline to go into long cycles of restriction - that's not the case for smoking or drinking.

So yes the post shows the cycle but to say "just stop" and offer no alternatives seems ya hollow, you know? don't know how that's supposed to help?

mc

She actually gives lengthy explanations of her alternatives in other blog posts. She seems to be a figure competitor who dieted too hard.

[Ryan D Andrews]

Originally Posted by mc-

Ryan, i'm sorry - what are you seeing in particular in this post?

it's a great question in the title, but the council is rather facile, no? And i'm not sure it's got its comparison right, either. Here's its advice about dieting:

WHat the heck is that supposed to mean? after you dieted last time you got fat again - that might happen again so since it does just go with it and accept it? You're kidding, right?

That post offers no understanding of what's going on in dieting or why actually most folks fail when they come off the diet (try not planning for change or success or understanding how the body/mind reacts to change - you know, habits?). It's not the same as being alcoholic. It takes tremendous discipline to go into long cycles of restriction - that's not the case for smoking or drinking.

So yes the post shows the cycle but to say "just stop" and offer no alternatives seems ya hollow, you know? don't know how that's supposed to help?

mc

The blog assumes that strict dieting causes more problems than it solves.

It seems that many people only become yo-yo dieters, compulsive eaters and develop disordered eating after they've "dieted."

Is this always the case? I'm sure it isn't. But I can assure you that it is very common.

The parts of the blog I especially enjoyed were highlighted in my original post.

[mc-]

Originally Posted by Ryan D Andrews

The blog assumes that strict dieting causes more problems than it solves.

It seems that many people only become yo-yo dieters, compulsive eaters and develop disordered eating after they've "dieted."

Is this always the case? I'm sure it isn't. But I can assure you that it is very common.

The parts of the blog I especially enjoyed were highlighted in my original post.

THank you Ryan, for framing this up. I appreciate the focus on that part you make. thanks.

From what i'm seeing in my limited experience, and from the nascent literature in this space the diet is a symptom of other effects and that focusing on the diet as the source of pain rather than the site of pain, as it were, may miss something significant about helping folks to move to that Happy Place.

thanks again and as always for bringing the good stuff to the table here.

mc

[Ryan D Andrews]

Uh-oh.

BUSM researchers show dieters can experience neurobiological similarities of drug addicts (the 'dieters' were rats )

[futuredave]

Originally Posted by Ryan D Andrews

Uh-oh.

BUSM researchers show dieters can experience neurobiological similarities of drug addicts (the 'dieters' were rats )

Here's the article, which I relate only too well to. So, Ryan, if one is not to "diet," what is one to do?

It seems the great challenge to those of us who enjoy "palatable" food is to learn to have a little something in addition to a healthy diet -- say a cup of ice cream eaten and enjoyed guilt-free, rather than a quart snarfed down in denial standing outside the refrigerator.

What do you think the great lesson from all this is? "Don't diet" seems to be a non-solution since that's how most of us ended up at PN anyway. Our non-dieting was making us fat. I know you're not suggesting we go back to that. But I'm a little unclear on what mental approach you think we should adopt. Thanks.




BUSM researchers show dieters can experience neurobiological similarities of drug addicts

Dieters can experience neurobiological similarities of drug addicts and alcoholics

(Boston) – Researchers from Boston University School of Medicine (BUSM) have shown that intermittent access to foods rich in fat and sugar induces changes in the brain which are comparable to those observed in drug dependence. The findings, reported in the journal Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences, may explain how abstinence from these foods contributes to relapse eating among dieters as well as related eating disorders.

Forms of obesity and eating disorders can be defined as chronic relapsing conditions with alternating periods of abstinence (dieting to avoid "forbidden" foods-rich in sugar and fat also known as palatable foods) and relapse (compulsive, often uncontrollable, eating of highly-palatable foods) that continue despite negative consequences. Although the positive reinforcing properties of palatable foods are well known, less attention has been given to the increased probability of a behavioral response produced by removal of an aversive stimulus (intake of palatable food to relieve negative emotional states).

The researchers used 155 rats to measure the neurobiological responses. The first group, the diet cycled subjects, repeatedly ate standard rat chow for five days, followed by a highly palatable, high-sugar, chocolate-flavored chow for two days. The second group ate only standard food. The amount of food consumed was not restricted for either group. When the diet-cycled rats were fed standard chow, they showed less motivation to obtain it, refused it, although it was previously acceptable, and they exhibited anxiety. However when the rats resumed eating the palatable food, they overate and their anxiety-related behaviors returned to normal.

The researchers then looked at the role of the brain's stress system, which contributes to cycles of drug and alcohol binging and withdrawal, in driving these behaviors. They found that during abstinence from palatable foods, the rats showed increased corticotropin-releasing factor (CRF) gene expression and peptide in the amygdala, an area of the brain involved in fear, anxiety and stress responses. Similar to the anxiety, only when the diet-cycled group was fed palatable food did CRF levels return to normal. Importantly, the blockade of the CRF receptor 1 with a selective antagonist was able to prevent all the behavioral outcomes of palatable food withdrawal.

According to the researchers, CRF is a key stress neurotransmitter. "In observing the activation of the amygdaloid CRF system during abstinence from palatable foods, we understood the causes of recurrent dieting failures," said study co-author Pietro Cottone, PhD, an assistant professor and co-director of the Laboratory of Addictive Disorders in the Department of Pharmacology and Experimental Therapeutics at BUSM.

"CRF activation during abstinence from palatable foods induces a negative emotional state which is responsible for signs of anxiety and contributes to relapse to 'forbidden foods,'" added study co-author Valentina Sabino, PhD, an assistant professor and co-Director of the Laboratory of Addictive Disorders in the Department of Pharmacology and Experimental Therapeutics at BUSM. "The stress experienced by frequent dieters in abstinence from palatable food has neurobiological similarities to the negative emotional state of drug and alcohol addicts."

[Ryan D Andrews]

Good question.

Well, from a purely nutritional standpoint, I really think the PN way of eating is right on.

But for many people, eating goes well beyond vegetables, lean protein and having food ready to eat. You know?

For long-term eating, it seems like the successful people are:

--Getting feedback from their body (hunger and fullness)
--Making sure to build in foods they enjoy on a regular basis
--Enjoying food
--Not following restrictive diets that lead to yo-yo eating
--Taking responsibility for their daily food choices and not placing the blame elsewhere
--Not putting foods off limits
--Eating enough nutritious food
--Not using food to numb emotions and learning other ways to sit with feelings
--Not using food to create stimulation when it's lacking in other areas of life
--Prioritizing healthy eating
--Surrounding themselves with healthy people
--Accepting that healthy eating is a process and never ends
--Identifying foods and/or situations that don't work for them
--Making future food decisions based upon previous experiences
--Eating real food (whole foods)
--Not trying to be perfect and not adopting the "all-or-none" mindset
--Developing the identity of a healthy person
--Accepting that healthy eating is just like any other area of life, it takes effort, work and perseverance. Good nutrition isn't about reading a book, following a diet plan or using a supplement. It is something that will ebb and flow. It's something we'll always need to work on and keep in check.

I'm sure I neglected to mention many things. But those are some of the things that seem to be working for people. We know that the dieting approach isn't working very well.

Hope that helps summarize some of my views.

[mc-]

Ryan really nice points about strategies around food when one's focus is on food.

i'm fascinated and compelled by work with folks who are not "successful" let's say around food. It seems that some interesting research is showing that really folks who struggle around food use food as part of other behavior patterns.

So success is around getting at these behaviours, no? as well as understanding what's actually wired in us to go for high carb safe foods? (hedonic/homeostatic discussions here; susan roberts work from tufts)

the books by the various becks are pretty good here, ya, about understanding food issues and behaviour?

and as folks show, not knowing how to plan for change to support change (something PN tries to help with) is really important.

some musings on these points with references about how one can engage with understanding and habit change.

that's likely pretty scratchy - it's cuz it's fairly nascent thinking.

mc

[Ryan D Andrews]

Originally Posted by mc-

So success is around getting at these behaviours, no?

mc

I think you are right on. This is what most people neglect.