[tgrohsje]

From a couple of books and articles I read, I know how important it is to progres from workout to workout (e.g. by increasing weights, reps etc.) However, there is one thing I'm not sure about and I hope that someone can answer my question.

For the last year I used Joe Defrancos WS4SB program. Although I made some progress, I think that the progress is far away from what is possible and I think the reason for this is that I didn't progress enough. I changed my main exercises (max effort) every three weeks. In the first week I tried to test the max weight I can use. Next week I tried to add a small amount of weight. Sometimes it worked out, sometimes it didn't. Third week the same. Then I changed the max effort exercise (from squat to deadlift) and started a new circle. After three weeks I went back to squats and started with the old weight because I couln't handle more.
So here is the first question: Is it correct to change the main exercise every three weeks or is this to often? And if so how often should I change them?

The same question holds for assistance exercises. How should I progress in them? How often should I change them?
I Think it is not possible to add every week some weight to let's say a dumbell row.

Thx for any answer

Thorsten

[KINSELL]

It was hard for me to make gains on ws4sb also. I think that most people change exercises too often, especially with westside making this method popular. I make much better gains by using jim wendler's 531. It allows me to push the envelope and cycle the loads. Changing the main exercise weekly or every couple of weeks may work for some people but I think they are few. I know of several powerlifters who use the same exercises for years on end and still make good progress.

[Magic Wonder425]

I change exercises every 12-16 weeks.

Even then, it depends on how I feel. If I think I can keep making progress on an exercise, I'll continue using it. On the other hand, if an exercise becomes troublesome - can't increase weight - I'll switch it for a different one.

[Roland Fisher]

I think if WS4SB isn't working for a person, it is likely that it is being applied inappropriately for that person. Not a criticism or judgment, just an observation of others who've not done well with it.

To rotate exercises is a good thing. First, it can teach you which exercises complement your main lifts. If you go up in bench, and not in military press, then you know that bench sucks to bring up your military press. However, perhaps bringing up your military press would help the bench. Basically if one lift goes up and a complimentary lift doesn't, then you know the lift that went up doesn't do jack for the one that didn't.

Where folks often go wrong is they try and follow a prescription more than they should. For example, the main lift is a ME lift in the 3-5 rep range. One could read a bunch on how DeFranco means for you to do it, or one could simply train for the desired effect. When you ramp the load up over 5-8 sets to get your best triple for that day, you can do it so very, very differently.

One way would be to get to a heavy triple by simply doing 5 sets of progressively heavier triples. This isn't the way to do it. The way to do it is to do 5 sets of progressively heavier triples with each set being done with as fast a concentric as possible. The first set is like a speed set. Each set is heavier, thus slower, but it is with "spleen splitting intensity" that you try and move that load fast. (that quote is another story) That way you start with around 2/3 the load you end with. If you start too low you cannot do the speed work properly.

By ramping up like this, you get your speed work in, and the nervous system gets primed to do more work. That last set isn't as heavy as it could be. You could work up to it like a contest, but that isn't why you use that movement. The PRs come as a result of the training, they aren't the point in training. It's subtle. The training is to ramp up the nervous system.

You know you did it right when you feel like an animal, you want to attack the workout. You did it wrong when you feel drained, like you put it all on the line.

Next comes the volume work, the rep work. Most get too caught up in the parameters again, and forget to train with the intended effect. With the accessory work we could do the prescribed four sets of 10 on a given day and blow it. If we go all out on those sets, then we switch from volume work and move into ME work for higher reps.

After the volume work, you should again feel pretty good. Not an animal anymore, but good. If you feel like you left it all on the floor, then you will need serious time to recover the CNS fatigue.

It is better, for a couple of reasons, to avoid failure in the volume work. First, and perhaps most importantly, you don't reinforce faulty movement patterns. When you are fresh you use your motor units well, as you fatigue, you stop using the more ideal units and start using less ideal units as compensations. If these compensations are what gets reinforced, you get problems. Second, it is less fatiguing to avoid failure. You can recover better and hit the next training session sooner, and with more energy.

Waterbury's speed failure is great here. If the prescription is for 4x10, then really the prescription is for 40 total reps. Does it matter if you get 40 reps over 8 minutes, in 4 sets, or if you do 40 in 8 minutes in 6 sets? It still is 40 reps with the same load in the same time. So if you again shoot for very fast concentrics and stop when you cannot move as fast no matter how hard you try, then rest a short bit and repeat until you get 40, then you've done the job.

The very high reps are a different animal. Go nuts on those just like De Franco says. They aren't heavy enough to cause too much trouble by going to failure.

Using this kind of application of WS4SB works every time I've applied it. Achieve the purpose of every part of the program and you'll get bigger and stronger.

Any program is a prescription that is trying to achieve a desired effect. Understanding that desired effect is the key to move from working out into training.

[KINSELL]

Roland, I think you nailed it on the head. When I look at my training log from when I attempted WS4SB I didn't apply things correctly. I mainly focused on going all out and ended up really fried for days. I might have to take a break from Wendler's 5/3/1 and revisit WS4SB.

[Roland Fisher]

I hope it helps, it sure is a light bulb moment for a lot of my clients when they shift focus.

I wish I knew Scott Abel, he is all over understanding the body when it talks to you during a session. I get some of it for sure, but he's the man that knows better.

I am also glad for Thib's at TMuscle, for explaining ramping up the load. For years he wrote thinking that the ramping was obvious, many folks thought he was too high volume, myself included, until you realize how he approaches his sets. I've done ramping for a long time and love it. It does it's job, it gets you fired up and ready to lift with a very in-tune nervous system.

Also, Staley got me thinking, years and years ago, about the quality of work being done as the most important factor. He showed us that hypertrophy happens without failure, that density works great too. Add to that Waterbury's use of speed failure and you get a kick ass way to get results without burning out.

Training to failure works too though, I'm not throwing it under the bus. It just doesn't bode well to do it all the time.

[tgrohsje]

Roland -
Thx for you explanation. It helped ma a lot to really understand the program and I think I will give it a try as you laid it out.
Best
Thorsten